134 replies to this topic

[LordYam]

well belt is from civilization and the girls presumably know it. I may be blasphemous but I didn't think this was a bad idea. He shows her his world, and the idea that while Belit is still tough she has no idea to handle the brutality that is cimmeria has potential. (her reaction to seeing snow after living in the desert and on the ocean was genuinely creative, and it felt in character. It's like when Conan saw the wonders of civilization.)

[johnnypt]

well belt is from civilization and the girls presumably know it. I may be blasphemous but I didn't think this was a bad idea. He shows her his world, and the idea that while Belit is still tough she has no idea to handle the brutality that is cimmeria has potential. (her reaction to seeing snow after living in the desert and on the ocean was genuinely creative, and it felt in character. It's like when Conan saw the wonders of civilization.)

Thing is we've barely seen Belit in her element. The first three issues held some tantalizing promises, the next three sort of just held those ideas at bay without much development. Unfortunately I found her portrayal in #7 almost comical in her grrl attitude. How about seeing Belit as, you know, a pirate? The panel with her and the snow was nice, but it's quite a ways down on the list of things I'd wanted to see in an adaptation of QOTBC.

[Officer Aggro]

I agree. We really haven't seen Belit in her own element yet, besides the opening scene where Conan first laid eyes on her. I'm hoping for some pirate adventures after this story arc is finished.

well belt is from civilization and the girls presumably know it.

I don't think I'd call Belit civilized either hehe.

[Taranaich]

Though I wouldn't call Cimmerian girls civilized, as I'd probably be the one getting my skull split for saying it.

That's exactly my point. The rest of the paragraph:

'Listen to him!' he shouted jeeringly. 'The barbarian is an eagle who would fly to the jeweled rim of the tower, which is only a hundred and fifty feet above the earth, with rounded sides slicker than polished glass!'

The Cimmerian glared about, embarrassed at the roar of mocking laughter that greeted this remark. He saw no particular humor in it, and was too new to civilization to understand its discourtesies. Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.

And, from "The Phoenix on the Sword":

"You laugh greatly, drink deep and bellow good songs; though I never saw another Cimmerian who drank aught but water, or who ever laughed, or ever sang save to chant dismal dirges."

Yeah, I'm sure Cimmerian women are prone to bitchy, mocking, impolite laughter like Zamorian strumpets.

[KG Thunder]

Though I wouldn't call Cimmerian girls civilized, as I'd probably be the one getting my skull split for saying it.

That's exactly my point. The rest of the paragraph:

'Listen to him!' he shouted jeeringly. 'The barbarian is an eagle who would fly to the jeweled rim of the tower, which is only a hundred and fifty feet above the earth, with rounded sides slicker than polished glass!'

The Cimmerian glared about, embarrassed at the roar of mocking laughter that greeted this remark. He saw no particular humor in it, and was too new to civilization to understand its discourtesies. Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.

And, from "The Phoenix on the Sword":

"You laugh greatly, drink deep and bellow good songs; though I never saw another Cimmerian who drank aught but water, or who ever laughed, or ever sang save to chant dismal dirges."

Yeah, I'm sure Cimmerian women are prone to bitchy, mocking, impolite laughter like Zamorian strumpets.

Yet more reason Wood should have actually read Howard.

[Officer Aggro]

Though I wouldn't call Cimmerian girls civilized, as I'd probably be the one getting my skull split for saying it.

That's exactly my point. The rest of the paragraph:

'Listen to him!' he shouted jeeringly. 'The barbarian is an eagle who would fly to the jeweled rim of the tower, which is only a hundred and fifty feet above the earth, with rounded sides slicker than polished glass!'

The Cimmerian glared about, embarrassed at the roar of mocking laughter that greeted this remark. He saw no particular humor in it, and was too new to civilization to understand its discourtesies. Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.

And, from "The Phoenix on the Sword":

"You laugh greatly, drink deep and bellow good songs; though I never saw another Cimmerian who drank aught but water, or who ever laughed, or ever sang save to chant dismal dirges."

Yeah, I'm sure Cimmerian women are prone to bitchy, mocking, impolite laughter like Zamorian strumpets.

Yeah really. Indeed Wood's Cimmerian girls are a bit off. Dark Horse had it right with the Caollan character.

"Tower of the Elephant" being my favorite next to "People of the Black Circle", I've memorized that particular quote about discourtesy.

[thatericn]

Though I wouldn't call Cimmerian girls civilized, as I'd probably be the one getting my skull split for saying it.

That's exactly my point. The rest of the paragraph:

'Listen to him!' he shouted jeeringly. 'The barbarian is an eagle who would fly to the jeweled rim of the tower, which is only a hundred and fifty feet above the earth, with rounded sides slicker than polished glass!'

The Cimmerian glared about, embarrassed at the roar of mocking laughter that greeted this remark. He saw no particular humor in it, and was too new to civilization to understand its discourtesies. Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.

And, from "The Phoenix on the Sword":

"You laugh greatly, drink deep and bellow good songs; though I never saw another Cimmerian who drank aught but water, or who ever laughed, or ever sang save to chant dismal dirges."

Yeah, I'm sure Cimmerian women are prone to bitchy, mocking, impolite laughter like Zamorian strumpets.

I would suspect Cimmerian women would on the whole, be a lot like the tough (often frontier) women from John Ford films. Maureen O'Hara in particular comes to mind...

[VoragoExcarnator]

Though I wouldn't call Cimmerian girls civilized, as I'd probably be the one getting my skull split for saying it.

That's exactly my point. The rest of the paragraph:

'Listen to him!' he shouted jeeringly. 'The barbarian is an eagle who would fly to the jeweled rim of the tower, which is only a hundred and fifty feet above the earth, with rounded sides slicker than polished glass!'

The Cimmerian glared about, embarrassed at the roar of mocking laughter that greeted this remark. He saw no particular humor in it, and was too new to civilization to understand its discourtesies. Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.

And, from "The Phoenix on the Sword":

"You laugh greatly, drink deep and bellow good songs; though I never saw another Cimmerian who drank aught but water, or who ever laughed, or ever sang save to chant dismal dirges."

Yeah, I'm sure Cimmerian women are prone to bitchy, mocking, impolite laughter like Zamorian strumpets.

Yeah really. Indeed Wood's Cimmerian girls are a bit off. Dark Horse had it right with the Caollan character.

"Tower of the Elephant" being my favorite next to "People of the Black Circle", I've memorized that particular quote about discourtesy.

I gotta say Taranaich I didn't notice it when I read it but thats a good point about CImmerian culture you make! Now to play devil's advocate I would argue that women are women everywhere, and that perhaps backbiting and bitchy comments are universal to the female creature but maybe thats a bit stereotypical

Plus Conan was never shy about voicing his contempt for civilized folk, perhaps these girls are just continuing in that proud tradition.

I didn't remember Caollan, but thanks to Officer Aggro I went back and re-read those comics and man that was a great story. Really sad. Fittingly, bleakly, Cimmerian.

Also rereading a huge chunk of Conan 1-25 and I'm really impressed with Giorello's art, easily better than Cloonan's (though it took me till now to appreciate it). When Cloonan nails it, she's great, but there are times when her proportions or anatomy seem off, and in those cases the lack of detail and stylized nature of her art really hurt her. It took me a while to get used to Giorello and his colorist, but I think in retrospect his style was near perfect for Conan.

Also leafed through the very first Dark Horse Conan issues and I remember why I liked them so much. Maybe his art was a bit sketchy in places but Cary Nord did a bang up job for 40+ issues! I didn't really love all their filler material, but their REH adaptations kicked ass.

All in all we've been pretty spoiled for art IMO, with Nord and Giorello for 75+ issues and some damn talented guest artists for the one shots and mini series too! I can understand a little better why people were pissed about Cloonan, the art has just been that damn good on the Conan books for YEARS. It's been years since I picked them up (till just recently) and I had forgotten that Nord and Giorello were so good for so long.

edit: and one last thing: Hawthorne's art on Road of Kings really isn't any worse than Cloonan's, and indeed might be better overall. My last post really was all kinds of wrong in retrospect. Not sure where my head was when I wrote it.

Edited by VoragoExcarnator, 25 August 2012 - 08:35 AM.

[monk]

Also rereading a huge chunk of Conan 1-25 and I'm really impressed with Giorello's art, easily better than Cloonan's (though it took me till now to appreciate it). When Cloonan nails it, she's great, but there are times when her proportions or anatomy seem off, and in those cases the lack of detail and stylized nature of her art really hurt her. It took me a while to get used to Giorello and his colorist, but I think in retrospect his style was near perfect for Conan.

giorello's gotten better, but he could stand to look at a copy of Grey's as well. nobody's invented anatomy better than the cover guy on the QotBC arc.

[VenariumDisease]

Cloonan's art is still a mixed bag for me. Backgrounds and Belit great, Conan and Belit's crew not so much. What is a reboot and what isn't is getting more confusing for me. Did Howard ever mention Conan's grandfather's name as Connacht is that Dark Horse only? Anyway, Cloonan's best art in this issue is the panels with the "other Conan". As for the story though, "What if Conan took Belit to Meet his Mum?" is about as plausible as Marvel's "What if Conan battled Wolverine?"

[Ironhand]

Cloonan's best art in this issue is the panels with the "other Conan". As for the story though, "What if Conan took Belit to Meet his Mum?" is about as plausible as Marvel's "What if Conan battled Wolverine?"

Boy, and how!
And yeah, the Conan imposter looks like the REAL Conan with brown eyes.

[Slashing Sword]

Cloonan draws cartoons... it is not Conan style. What is about her Belit that everyone is raving about???

[johnnypt]

Cloonan draws cartoons... it is not Conan style. What is about her Belit that everyone is raving about???

In the first arc, her Belit embodied a temptation for Conan, one filled with beauty and danger with a hint of supernatural. Drawing her this way I thought would be indicative of an approach the adaptation would take, a way that would've mitigated the issues I had with the changes and omissions from the original story. So far, this has not been the way it has unfolded. In this issue, she's drawn well, but not like she was in the earlier arc. She's just another character.

[Ironhand]

Cloonan draws cartoons... it is not Conan style. What is about her Belit that everyone is raving about???

Cloonan does not depict her as a bluff, forthright barbarian female warrior in a fur monokini. Cloonan's depiction of Belit is far more like Howard's conception as a femme fatale than in any previous comic book.

I would love to see Wood's written description of Belit that inspired Cloonan.

Edited by Ironhand, 03 September 2012 - 03:09 AM.

[VenariumDisease]

I just re-read from Free Companions all the way through the Argos Deception. One thing that really stands out about Wood's work is it reads so much faster than any other creative team. Of course I love Howard's QotBC, but it was never my favorite, l felt it suffered from the short story format. Anyway what's keeping me optimistic is the upcoming Hour of the Dragon, plus the fact there is still some of my favorites to cover, A Witch Shall Be Born, BtBR, RED NAILS. As long as Dark Horse gets the right people on this when it's all said and done RoK through QotBC will be a bad blip in the over all series.