38 replies to this topic

[deuce]

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And don't forget, if you wanna smell Hell - jine the cavalry!

Right on! However, historically, the cavalry have always gotten the majority of the women. WALK down a street, then drive a Diablo down the same street. See which gets you farther.

[deuce]

I did not know it was questionable history, Deuce. I am glad that you are bringing that to our attention. I had no idea. It was an interesting read though for fiction I guess.

No problem, Michael! All good. The quote in question:

"The Scythian horsemen drove the Cimmerians out of Central Asia for good. (Here's something to think about. Many historians think the Cimmerians may be related to the Welsh, whose name for themselves is Cymbri. The Cimmerians kept protoArabs of the Luristan type. Could the Welsh pony be a descendent of those early protoArabs? Just a thought)"

I'd like to know what "many historians" Ms. Davis is referring to. The same ones who go on about "British Israelites", perhaps?

This crap is wrong on a LOT of levels. NONE of it is backed up by equine genetic studies, BTW.

First off, there is no such thing known to history as "the Cymbri". Never existed. We'll look at the "Cimbri" first...

The Cimbri: .
http://www.thephora....hp/t-36202.html

In addition, here's what REH said:

"The two main groups of Celts were of course, Continental and insular. Of the Continental groups such few traces remain that history is barely able to distinguish the vague forms of the tribes in the mist of antiquity. It is like seeing great shadowy phantasms forver shifting in dim clouds. We know that the main branch was the Gauls. And there were the Belgae, who were strongly mixed with German and who had colonies in Britain and possibly in Ireland, since many claim that Firbolg, men with bags, is simply the Gaelic term for Belgae. It is possible. Then there were that strange fierce people who came suddenly and terribly into southern Gaul and Italy -- the Cimbri, who because of their association with the Germanic Teutones, many historians, including Plutarch, supposed them to be Germans."

Howard saw the Cimbric peoples as Celtic.

As far as the Cymry/"Welsh", the name is derived from "combrogi". "Cimbri" might be derived from a similar P-Celtic word, but that would be several centuries EARLIER. In the "Hyborian Age" guideline, Howard never connected the Welsh directly with the Cimmerians/Gaels.

Finally, we come to the Iranian Cimmerians: http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Cimmerians

Even if one buys into REH's "Hyborian Age" background, there's nothing in "HA" or Howard's letters to back up ANY connection betwixt the steeds of the Cimmerians and the Welsh Pony. Simple as that.

BTW, the Welsh is one of my favorite pony breeds. :

As I've said before, Nisaeans rule. The ancestors of all "big" warhorse breeds. Best of all, Cimmerians did ride Nisaeans, unlike Welsh ponies.

[Fierro]

Here's another:

Austrailian Light Horse Charge at Beersheeba

Edited by Fierro, 29 July 2012 - 03:12 PM.

[deuce]

Here's another:

Austrailian Light Horse Charge at Beersheeba

Awesome!

[deuce]

Here's another:

Australian Light Horse Charge at Beersheeba

You know I've got Aussie ancestors, right, Jim?

Not quite as realistic, but pure coolness in the Indo-European "death-ride" sense:



Is there ANY better place to shoot "medieval" films than Ireland?

[Hawkbrother]

And lets not forget the Battle of Brandy Station, the largest cavalry egagement of the Civil War, and the largest cavalry engagement on American soil.
Among other things, proved that the Union cavalry could hold its own with the Confederates,although neither side could claim conclusive victory.
From that area of Virginia,and have heard all the stories about Mosby's raiders, and so forth.

Edited by Hawkbrother, 30 July 2012 - 01:00 AM.

[deuce]

And lets not forget the Battle of Brandy Station, the largest cavalry egagement of the Civil War, and the largest cavalry engagement on American soil.
Among other things, proved that the Union cavalry could hold its own with the Confederates,although neither side could claim conclusive victory.
From that area of Virginia,and have heard all the stories about Mosby's raiders, and so forth.

Brandy Station was quite cool. However, do NOT forget Mine Creek:



A good friend of mine had his ancestor shot off the porch in 1860 by Missouri "bushwhackers". Sweet poetic justice that Confederates were routed/slaughtered just 10mi away 5yrs later.

[Fierro]

Here's another:

Australian Light Horse Charge at Beersheeba

You know I've got Aussie ancestors, right, Jim?

Not quite as realistic, but pure coolness in the Indo-European "death-ride" sense:



Is there ANY better place to shoot "medieval" films than Ireland?

You have impeccably epic bloodlines...

[deuce]

You have impeccably epic bloodlines...

I try to live up to such. Been in a bit of a lull, lately. PM me about a "Sahibs" post for Partisans.

[deuce]

REH scholar, Keith Taylor, cranks out another great post about Robert E. Howard and horsemanship:

http://rehtwogunraco...9996#more-19996

[deuce]

Not about warhorses per se, but a bad-a$$ equestrian website:

http://www.thelongri...ild.com/LRG.htm

[deuce]

A cool gallery of horse art/photos:


http://pinterest.com...rse-cowboy-art/

[deuce]

John Clarke, an archaeologist at the Tower of London Museum and one of the top authorities on European equines during the Middle Ages, wrote a book a few years ago entitled The Medieval Horse and Its Equipment:

http://books.google....l horse&f=false

I just learned about this book and will keep an eye out for an affordable copy. In addition, Clarke (in the "Acknowledgements") thanks my gal, Ann Hyland, for her expertise. That just recommends it more, IMO.

[deuce]

A good article on new studies into equine intelligence:


http://iceryder.net/brain.html

[deuce]

A great write-up on the Chamadao, "Tea-Horse Road":

http://www.picturesf...=showItem&id=40

Most don't realize one of the main import items that the Chinese received in exchange for their silk (and later, tea) were the well-nigh legendary horses of the Ferghana Valley. The Chinese were horse-poor for a very long time and constantly sought to augment their inferior strains with better breeds from the West.

One quibble I have with the article is the implication that, from the beginning, horses were obtained from Turkic and related tribes. Such is not borne out by archaeology and historical research. Up until at least the 1st century AD, their main sources would've been the Tokharians, the Saka (related to the historical Cimmerians) and other Indo-European peoples who had controlled Central Asia for millennia.

[deuce]

Part Four in Keith Taylor's great series on Robert E. Howard and mounted warfare:


http://rehtwogunraconteur.com/?p=20577

[deuce]

Keith Taylor looks at horsemanship in Renaissance Europe, with plenty of nods to Robert E. Howard:


http://rehtwogunraconteur.com/?p=20343

[deuce]

The Scythians loved their hosses. Here's the write-up on a very impressive Scythian burial mound in Kazakhstan, which contained 13 steeds and their accoutrements:


http://www.archaeolo...s/scythian.html

Apparently, DNA research on the Scythian horses is being conducted as we speak.

[Keith J Taylor]

It's a great discussion topic. I've taken it on -- presumptuously, maybe, as I'm no expert -- in the REH Two Gun Raconteur weblog recently. Deuce Richardson, you were a great help. Just want to make it clear that any shortcomings or mistakes in the series are mine. (The posts also had to be fairly short, and it's a huge subject. I couldn't research it adequately in all the years I've got left!) Much of anything that's any good was down to Deuce's counsel. I tried to buy the most relevant of Ann Hyland's books online but received a reply that they couldn't send it to that address. However, I was able to get Kelekna's THE HORSE IN HUMAN HISTORY, Chamberlin's HORSE - HOW THE HORSE HAS SHAPED CIVILIZATIONS, and Oakeshott's small but useful A KNIGHT AND HIS HORSE. Excuse me while I click on and listen to the songs by Corb Lund.