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#1 godzilladude

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 02:57 PM

Hey there gang,

I have been away a while, working on various things, mostly family, but also I've been helping out the Widow Lord (Lou Ann) with sorting out the Glenn Lord collection. For those that did not know, Glenn did not win Lotto (though some might think so! :) ), and did not have infinite money to spend on his collection. And he had a family to care for. AND, a large portion of his collection was acquired in the 50s, 60s and 70s, back when the things he was acquiring cost just a dollar or two apiece, and they clearly didn't have any real value. So Glenn never really got into treating his collection like some kind of all-consuming sacred duty. It was just his stuff! Not to mention, it would have cost tens of thousands of dollars to do the museum treatment. Well, and acquiring an extra house to put it all in. Really.

Also, for a big collector, his organization wasn't perfect. Oh, he kept brilliant notes on everything, and his ability to recall from memory a billion little bits of data was always amazing. But if you asked him where a particular item in his collection was, out ot the more than 20K items, stored in 4 or 5 different places, something that he hadn't pulled out in a couple decades, that might of stumped him offhand. Oh, he'd find it eventually, as he generally would recall where to look. But this kind of fell back to that lack of desire to drop tens of thousands to create perfect storage. He DID manage to leave a nice nest egg for his family, and I can dig that, as a father and husband myself. Priorities.

So, me, and occasionally some others, especailly Rob, started digging through everything. I cannot tell you how humbling it is to be entrusted by the family with carefully digging thorugh all this, and trying to give them some basic lists of everything, some suggestions on what things are worth, options for disposal, if desired. Just bringing back to the pad in Dallas 20 or 30 or 40 boxes at a time, indexing it all, and seeing what you see.

I thought I'd start letting y'all in on some of the new or unusual things that have passed over the desk. I don't know that I've seen anything that really changed my worldview of REH or Glenn, nothing like that. But a LOT of interest tidbits.

So, let the stories begin.

#2 godzilladude

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 04:02 PM

Typescripts

For those that don't know the story, REH generally typed all his stories. Oh, some old school work level stuff was handwritten, or occasionally stuff that he cranked out while on the road (like a letter). But 99+% of all his stuff was typed.

REH did not keep a final perfect copy of all his stories. He DID learn a valuable lesson early on when Weird Tales told him they loved one of his stories, but the stupid artist lost the draft, could he please send along his carbon. And he thought, "carbon"?? Had to retype it from scratch. Good to have a good memory, I suppose. But after that, he started making a habit of keeping a carbon, at least until the story published. And the pulps of course just threw away the pages after the story was typeset :(

The other imporrtant fact to remember about REH and his typescripts is that he was loath to spend money on paper, so he would recycle the back of pages that were no longer being saved. So, earlier drafts, or finals of sold stories. And of course, his stories were all different lengths. So at the time of REH's death, there were thousands of pages of STUFF sitting around his room. Some finished stories, some work in progress, but mostly, lots and lots of recycled pages, a decent percentage of it with stuff on both sides.

The vast majority of REH's typescripts were bundled up by Doc Howard and sent to the agent, Otis Kline. Otis picked out what he thought would readily sell (and it wasn't much), and sent the rest back to Doc. Most of the stuff that the agent kept ended up either sold off and trashed by the magazines. Around the time that Glenn came in as agent, ca. 1964?, there was only a thousand pages or so left with the former agents. Most of those pages ended up in the Cross Plains Libary. Most of those are nice final drafts, nothing on the backs.

All those other pages, all that stuff that OAK didn't want and went back to Doc, those were handed off to various folks over the years, and finally pulled all back together by Glenn, one of the few times he dropped some real coin to get something. And that stack represents maybe 90+% of all the known pages.

How many pages? It embarrasses me to say that I don't have an exact count yet. That's because, the scanning and indexing of the pages has occurred over a stack of years, starting as early as 2006, in multiple waves, and I don't know that I'm done yet, though I think I am MOSTLY (99%+) done. So lots of stuff was shot multiple times, cause speed tended to be part of the discussion at times. The math majors can work the numbers for how much time it takes scanning say 20K pages, one at a time by hand on a flat bed scanner, checking the output, and shooting again if needed. Tedious.

When Glenn got all this mess of goo, back in the 1960s, copiers were not common. And so he set out to sort it all by hand. Trouble was, lots of stuff had different stories on either side. AND, you might correctly pull together a full run of a draft of a story, and then have parts and pieces of three or four different stories on the back side. The pages could only go with ONE bundled up story, so Glenn would choose which story to stack the complete pages up for, then write notes on a cover page that would tell what was on the back, and sometimes where the rest of the story could be found.

There are also multple drafts of oodles of stories. I think the most I've seen for one story is seven different drafts. LSDC famously said REH was sloppy because he cranked out stories in one draft, pointing to some bluster in a letter REH wrote. So not true. REH was a craftsman, and didn't mind polishing up the work as he went along.

Drafts tended to go from shorter to longer, quite often with the earlier drafts dwindling to a synopsis at the end. Then the next draft, he'd repeat or alter a bit his earlier work, and then start cranking out more of the full story where earlier had just been synopsis at the end. Some of these never got completely completed.

REH also tended to use carbon paper until it was completely devoid of ink. So some of his carbons are just as dark as regular type. Some are almost invisible.

REH also, at least when working drafts, would want to fill the page, to use less paper. So he would type right up to the very edge of the paper, sometimes going over slightly. Same for the bottom of the page. Carbons were even worse, because they might not have been lined up perfectly. So, there are some pages where the last line is cut in half, halfway off the bottom of the page.

And, REH threw away lots and lots of stuff. Maybe most of the pages he typed. Just the way it went. So even if you think you have a "final" draft, might not really be. We have some stories with multiple "final" drafts. And titles changes occasionally in the drafting process. If you don't know if you have the true final draft, you don't know if you have to true final title. And pulp and magazine editors did all sorts of changes, some that occasionally got documented, but lots more that we never saw mention of.

Glenn's sense of order was way better than mine. Once he got it all sorted out, he thought about what he would send to publishers. And so Glenn started retyping the stories and poems and letters. So we have thousands of pages of Glenn retypes, especially the poetry. In general, those are easy to spot. Glenn's various typewriters had seriously different fonts, and he tended to double space, lots of margin, etc. Though, I recently came across pages here and there where the paper is very old, looking just like original paper, and typed in a style very similar ot Bob's, to the right and bottom edges, but it's a different machine, not Bob's. Really have to pay attention to even notice them. Glenn told Patrice once that he replaced a damaged page by retyping it, so perhaps that is where all of those came from. No real way ot say for sure. There WAS a small bundle of aged blank paper among Glenn's stuff, no doubt from REH, so perhaps that was some early Glenn work to fill the gap.

Anyway, everything typescript that has been located (Cross Plains Libary, Glenn's stash, TAMU, etc.) has been scanned and indexed. Identifying every page is a hoot, as there were hundreds of stray pages of typed stuff, out of the middle of some random story. Figuring out what goes with what is still an ongoing adventure. Even identifying everything has occasionally taken collective review by me and Rob and Rusty and Patrice to try to ID. Thank goodness Patrice has such a good memory.

We (meaning, "I") have not yet finished weeding out duplicates, and listing everything. I'm really hoping to have that done by the end of the year, though that may be wishful thinking. We also want to ID which stories we have from original typescript, which from copies of the originals, which only from Glenn retype, and which from publication only. What is the "best" version of each. And what the heck was the "best" title, if any. There will be some very scholarly wrasslin' and eye-gougin' over those, methinks.

How many pages total? Hmmm, seems some bright lad didn't keep good notes of what was on the back of what, so he has two scans for some single pages (front and back). One more thing to go sort out. I have over 21K scans. So, taking out duplicates, Glenn retypes, and ephemera, I dunno, maybe 15K?? Cut that number to take into account stuff that is two sided, and maybe 10-12K original pages.

Tomorrow, so what exactly did we find in there that was previously unknown or lost? Oh, some stories to tell . . .

#3 johnnypt

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 08:25 PM

Tomorrow, so what exactly did we find in there that was previously unknown or lost? Oh, some stories to tell . . .


Talk about a cliffhanger!

#4 THE KID

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 09:41 PM

Thanks guys for all of your hard work and dedication! We really appreciate all you do. :rolleyes:
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#5 DrSolarMOTA

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 02:20 AM

Wow. I can't possibly imagine the work that you guys are putting into this project. But what a payoff!!!

Thank you for all the hard work, because we will all be that much richer for it.

#6 godzilladude

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 02:47 PM

So, there were these two pages . . .

They were sitting together, and indeed, one read cleanly into the next, numbered sequentially. Western, somebody wrasslin' a bear they had accidentally run into, falling off a cliff, then heading to check out a cabin the bad guy was in. The tone wasn't exactly Breck, and it didn't say "Breck" anywhere, and it wasn't funny, so i dunno. But it isn't a story I know. We do the group chat, and we all agree it is PROBABLY a Breck story, though one we've never seen. We go ahead and publish those two pages in the REHF Newsletter.

Cut to a couple months later, and we're digging through MORE stuff. Up turns some more stray pages. It takes me a while to recognize the flow, and I dig out the other two pages, and voila, now we have more like 16 pages, making up two different drafts. And NOW, I know what I'm looking at. Breck is after "Black Whiskers", the guy he thinks stole Uncle Jeppard's gold. That is the basic plot of the short story "A Gent from Bear Creek". Except in the published version, Breck saves an old man from a lynching, ends up wandering into some town and getting in a brawl with the evil gang, they threaten to lynch him, mayhem ensues. This version, which starts with page 18 in both drafts, has the grizzly, the cabin, capture and escape and illegal gold mining. Completely different.

So, what appears to have happened, REH wrote the story with the grizzly version. Decided it didn't have enough yucks or whatever, and took a second cut starting at page 18, made it longer, added some more detail. Then just said "Nope", and changed the entire storyline around, wrote an all new page 18+, and sold it.

Both those alternate versions will be showing up in the Westerns books. Oh, and there is a slightly different opening to the story in another draft. Most be three or four that we have in hand. One fo those that got reworked a bunch.

#7 godzilladude

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 03:16 PM

Hitler

So, I come across a stray page 12 out of a letter. And he's talking about Hitler, and troubles in Kansas. I'm thinking OK, this will be easy to ID, just run a search through the letters etext and it'll pop right up. Nope. REH never mentioned Hitler by name in any letters we know of.

So, it appears to be a page from a letter REH was writing to most likely HPL, based on the tone, etc., and for whatever reason, he wrote this page, then decided he didn't like it, and went back and started over.

Though I don't have it in my notes, I'm thinking Rob has already ID'ed which particular letter this goes with, based on the words at the start of the page. Rob is pretty darn good at detectivin'.

Definitely something to publish in the REHF Newsletter, oh yes.

#8 Rob Roehm

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 04:27 PM

REH did mention Hitler in the March 2, 1932 and ca. December 1934 letters to HPL. And I'm not as good at "detectivin" as you think; I've looked at that page a few times without success.

#9 deuce

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 06:38 AM

Hitler

So, I come across a stray page 12 out of a letter. And he's talking about Hitler, and troubles in Kansas. I'm thinking OK, this will be easy to ID, just run a search through the letters etext and it'll pop right up. Nope. REH never mentioned Hitler by name in any letters we know of.

So, it appears to be a page from a letter REH was writing to most likely HPL, based on the tone, etc., and for whatever reason, he wrote this page, then decided he didn't like it, and went back and started over.

Though I don't have it in my notes, I'm thinking Rob has already ID'ed which particular letter this goes with, based on the words at the start of the page. Rob is pretty darn good at detectivin'.

Definitely something to publish in the REHF Newsletter, oh yes.


I had the "Hitler letters" in my rough index of the letters (me, I'm a big Hitler-hater). This whole issue is something I've maintained ever since the "Letters" volumes started being published: REH alluded to a myriad of people/places/events/yarns without actually naming them. Any "index" worth its salt couldn't be compiled by "searching" an etext. Each letter would need to be examined the old-school way in order to wring out every last drop of Howardian nuance.

Totally appreciative of the hard work y'all are always putting forth. B)

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#10 theagenes

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 11:41 AM


Hitler

So, I come across a stray page 12 out of a letter. And he's talking about Hitler, and troubles in Kansas. I'm thinking OK, this will be easy to ID, just run a search through the letters etext and it'll pop right up. Nope. REH never mentioned Hitler by name in any letters we know of.

So, it appears to be a page from a letter REH was writing to most likely HPL, based on the tone, etc., and for whatever reason, he wrote this page, then decided he didn't like it, and went back and started over.

Though I don't have it in my notes, I'm thinking Rob has already ID'ed which particular letter this goes with, based on the words at the start of the page. Rob is pretty darn good at detectivin'.

Definitely something to publish in the REHF Newsletter, oh yes.


I had the "Hitler letters" in my rough index of the letters (me, I'm a big Hitler-hater). This whole issue is something I've maintained ever since the "Letters" volumes started being published: REH alluded to a myriad of people/places/events/yarns without actually naming them. Any "index" worth its salt couldn't be compiled by "searching" an etext. Each letter would need to be examined the old-school way in order to wring out every last drop of Howardian nuance.

Totally appreciative of the hard work y'all are always putting forth. B)


;)
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#11 godzilladude

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 02:05 PM


Hitler

So, I come across a stray page 12 out of a letter. And he's talking about Hitler, and troubles in Kansas. I'm thinking OK, this will be easy to ID, just run a search through the letters etext and it'll pop right up. Nope. REH never mentioned Hitler by name in any letters we know of.

So, it appears to be a page from a letter REH was writing to most likely HPL, based on the tone, etc., and for whatever reason, he wrote this page, then decided he didn't like it, and went back and started over.

Though I don't have it in my notes, I'm thinking Rob has already ID'ed which particular letter this goes with, based on the words at the start of the page. Rob is pretty darn good at detectivin'.

Definitely something to publish in the REHF Newsletter, oh yes.


I had the "Hitler letters" in my rough index of the letters (me, I'm a big Hitler-hater). This whole issue is something I've maintained ever since the "Letters" volumes started being published: REH alluded to a myriad of people/places/events/yarns without actually naming them. Any "index" worth its salt couldn't be compiled by "searching" an etext. Each letter would need to be examined the old-school way in order to wring out every last drop of Howardian nuance.

Totally appreciative of the hard work y'all are always putting forth. B)


Exactly! And heaven help us when we start to index the prose.

#12 godzilladude

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 02:17 PM

Poetry

There are perhaps a dozen new poems that have been unearthed. The only one of them listed in The Last Celt was "A Rattlesnake Sings in the Grass". Indeed, that was the only known poem not to make it into Collected Poetry . There was also some variations of poems, perhaps earlier or later drafts.

So, when and if there is a new Collected Poetry, it will just have to be a SMIDGE thicker. In the meantime, I imagine we'll get these published here and there, perhaps starting with the Foundation Newsletter. I mean, what good are they if nobody gets to read them?

Later.

#13 Ningauble

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 05:31 PM

Poetry

There are perhaps a dozen new poems that have been unearthed. The only one of them listed in The Last Celt was "A Rattlesnake Sings in the Grass". Indeed, that was the only known poem not to make it into Collected Poetry .


... and the line from "Rogues in the House", and the chapter headings from "The Road of Azrael", right?

So, when and if there is a new Collected Poetry, it will just have to be a SMIDGE thicker.


I guess I'll have to invest in the 2nd ed. as well. :) Oh well -- the same thing has happened with Lovecraft's poetry.

In the meantime, I imagine we'll get these published here and there, perhaps starting with the Foundation Newsletter. I mean, what good are they if nobody gets to read them?



Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeet!!!

#14 godzilladude

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 02:10 PM

Chapbooks

As with pretty much every portion of the Glenn Lord collection, the volume of chapbooks is just crazy. Sure, the expected stuff, like Necronomicon Press, and Cryptic. But also all sorts of little players I never heard of, perhaps relating to Lovecraft, or CAS, or ERB. Many of them are also inscribed to Glenn, and if numbered, tend to be low numbered. I went through another box last night, and the entire box was completely full of chapbooks. Some in fabulous shape, some not so much, quite a range.

The next box was completely full of magazine-sized items, and was in fact almost all magazines. Again, some I knew, some I didn't.

The last idea I heard from the family, all the non-typescript stuff will eventually be sold off via eBay, a piece at a time. I have not heard when they plan to get started. They have, I dunno, 100+ boxes of books, mags, ephemera, etc., to move. The sales will generate some cash for the family, as collectively the entire bundle is worth something. When I was at REH Days, I had someone at the BBQ start getting all twisted, raising his voice angrily at Lou Ann, that she couldn't sell it, she had to give it away, to some university or library, because that's what HE wanted done with it. Screw her family. Wow. And of course, HE didn't want to pay for it, he wanted HER to take the hit for all that money, not himself. Classy. Fortunately Lou Ann has had to deal with rude people before, and she doesn't let the angry voices of such folks upset her. When folks put "things" ahead of "people", they really need to get a life. Just my opinion.

If someone DOES want to purchase the entire lot to donate somewhere, I suppose one could make an offer, though I don't know that they would have a clue what would be a fair price. There are just a very few select items that likely are worth a chunk of money, and thousands upon thousands of items that are $2-$50 range.

All the typescripts are going to the Harry Ransom Center at the University fo Texas, Austin. Sitting not too far away from the LSDC papers. I hope the room doesn't go up in flames.

#15 godzilladude

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 02:43 AM

APAs

Glenn was a member of REHupa, PEAPS, and EOD. EOD is Esoteric Order of Dagon, and HPL stuff generally. PEAPS is about pulps, I don't know what the acronym. Glenn was also a member of a few other short lived groups, like The Hyborean Legion.

PEAPS and REHupa, each issue comes with all the zines nicely stapled together. EOD, apparently missing the gentle guiding switch of Black Indy, didn't do that, just an envelope with all the stuff thrown in together. So when Glenn opened it, stuff gets scattered. I've run into bits and pices of EOD's all over the place. Seems the folks that wrote the zines in general didn't feel a need to mention which issue of EOD they went to, or the date.

So, if ANYONE has an index to EOD, man would it be appreciated.

Edited by godzilladude, 02 September 2012 - 02:44 AM.


#16 Ningauble

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 10:17 AM

So, if ANYONE has an index to EOD, man would it be appreciated.


The John Hay Library is supposed to have a complete set of EOD mailings, but I doubt they're properly indexed.
These days, most of the members clearly state what mailing their 'zines belong to.

#17 godzilladude

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 11:32 PM

One fun little item I just came across, a little booklet, undated but clearly really old, from McFadden Publications, telling how to submit a story, to True Stories. "Tell Your Story in the First Person", "Use Fictitious Names or Characters and Locations", and so on, for more than a dozen pages. So cool! I imagine this might have been Bob's, though perhaps something Glenn scammed from a shut down publishing house or maybe from the old agents.

Yes, I get excited for reasons other may not on occasion. :)

And lordy, I think I have seen every possible Lovecraft related publication known to man. Box after box after box, whoof.

#18 deuce

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 07:02 AM

One fun little item I just came across, a little booklet, undated but clearly really old, from McFadden Publications, telling how to submit a story, to True Stories. "Tell Your Story in the First Person", "Use Fictitious Names or Characters and Locations", and so on, for more than a dozen pages. So cool! I imagine this might have been Bob's, though perhaps something Glenn scammed from a shut down publishing house or maybe from the old agents.

Yes, I get excited for reasons other may not on occasion. :)

And lordy, I think I have seen every possible Lovecraft related publication known to man. Box after box after box, whoof.


Keep the info comin', Paul. B)

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#19 deuce

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 07:08 AM

When I was at REH Days, I had someone at the BBQ start getting all twisted, raising his voice angrily at Lou Ann, that she couldn't sell it, she had to give it away, to some university or library, because that's what HE wanted done with it. Screw her family. Wow. And of course, HE didn't want to pay for it, he wanted HER to take the hit for all that money, not himself. Classy. Fortunately Lou Ann has had to deal with rude people before, and she doesn't let the angry voices of such folks upset her. When folks put "things" ahead of "people", they really need to get a life. Just my opinion.


What an a-hole. Yeah, I want REH typescripts easily available, but that doesn't mean the Lord family shouldn't profit from Glenn being a life-long collector.

Stay on top of things, Paul.

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#20 godzilladude

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 02:36 PM


When I was at REH Days, I had someone at the BBQ start getting all twisted, raising his voice angrily at Lou Ann, that she couldn't sell it, she had to give it away, to some university or library, because that's what HE wanted done with it. Screw her family. Wow. And of course, HE didn't want to pay for it, he wanted HER to take the hit for all that money, not himself. Classy. Fortunately Lou Ann has had to deal with rude people before, and she doesn't let the angry voices of such folks upset her. When folks put "things" ahead of "people", they really need to get a life. Just my opinion.


What an a-hole. Yeah, I want REH typescripts easily available, but that doesn't mean the Lord family shouldn't profit from Glenn being a life-long collector.

Stay on top of things, Paul.


You know me. Shy and retiring to a fault. Yessah.