135 replies to this topic

[theagenes]

I started a new thread on this topic because I think the health of the Conan comics line as whole merits its own discussion. A large part of the new direction the regular series has been going in is being justified by higher sales. This is a valid point, so I think it might be worthwhile to look the actual data and see what they really say.

[theagenes]

Here are the sales numbers from the last year and half, basically going back to the beginning of Road of Kings. Prior to that the numbers were hovering solidly in the 15-16,000 range for most of 2010.

2012
JULY
Conan The Barbarian 6 15,078

JUNE
Conan The Barbarian 5 15,393

MAY
Conan The Barbarian 4 15,689

APRIL
Conan The Barbarian 3 17,261
King Conan Phoenix On The Sword 4 9,941

MARCH
Conan The Barbarian 2 17,288
King Conan Phoenix On The Sword 3 9,993

FEBRUARY
Conan The Barbarian 1 20,569
King Conan Phoenix On The Sword 2 10,185

JANUARY
King Conan Phoenix On The Sword 1 11,338
Conan Road of Kings 12 10,727

2011
DECEMBER
Conan Road of Kings 11 10,958

NOVEMBER
Conan Road of Kings 10 11,331

OCTOBER
Conan Road of Kings 9 11,546

SEPTEMBER
Conan Road of Kings 8 11,621

AUGUST
Conan Road of Kings 7 11,955

JULY
Conan Island of No Return 2 12,330

JUNE
Conan Island of No Return 1 13,547
Conan Road of Kings 6 12,523

MAY
Conan Road Of Kings 5 12,672
King Conan Scarlet Citadel 4 12,040

APRIL
Conan Road of Kings 4 12,827
King Conan Scarlet Citadel 3 12,158

MARCH
Conan Road of Kings 3 13,193
King Conan Scarlet Citadel 2 12,472

FEBRUARY
King Conan Scarlet Citadel 1 13,935

JANUARY
Conan The Road of Kings 2 13,385

[theagenes]

Here's what it looks like as a line graph.

[theagenes]

So there are several trends here. First you had a slow decline in the regular monthly title of the span of the Road of Kings arc from around 15-16,000 to around 10-11,000. Clearly RoK was a bomb and drive away 1/3 of the regular readership. The secondary titles more or less followed whatever the main monthly series was doing at that time. For our purposes less call this group the Old Readers.

At the beginning of 2012 the Old Readers numbered 10K. Now with the new Brian Wood series it started at 20K; it should be safe to assume that half of that is Old Readers. The other 10k presumably is made up of people that weren't previously reading Conan---we'll call them the New Readers.Since it's debut CtB has lost 5000 buyers. Now the big question is, who made up this 5000 that left---Old Readers or New Readers? If it was New Readers that left then it's no big deal. Once Wood leaves the other 5000 New Readers will probably also leave and we will be right back where we started with 10,000 core Old Readers. But what if the 5000 that has been lost represents Old Readers that have abandoned the title because they didn't like the new direction? Then when Wood leaves so will 10,000 New Readers and all that will be left are 5000 Old Readers. Can the title title survive with only 5000 readers? It's hard to imagine.

So there is a real possiblity what Dark Horse has done with this new direction is create an initial spike in readership for the short term, but effectively killed it in the long term. I hope that isn't case, but it is certainly possible.

[KG Thunder]

Well being an old reader myself, I quit buying CtB after #3. I know a few friends who are new readers (having just gotten into Conan through the King Conan series) who are both still buying CtB monthly. My guess is it's a bit of both, but mostly old readers dropping off. What a shame.

[johnnypt]

So there are several trends here. First you had a slow decline in the regular monthly title of the span of the Road of Kings arc from around 15-16,000 to around 10-11,000. Clearly RoK was a bomb and drive away 1/3 of the regular readership. The secondary titles more or less followed whatever the main monthly series was doing at that time. For our purposes less call this group the Old Readers.

At the beginning of 2012 the Old Readers numbered 10K. Now with the new Brian Wood series it started at 20K; it should be safe to assume that half of that is Old Readers. The other 10k presumably is made up of people that weren't previously reading Conan---we'll call them the New Readers.Since it's debut CtB has lost 5000 buyers. Now the big question is, who made up this 5000 that left---Old Readers or New Readers? If it was New Readers that left then it's no big deal. Once Wood leaves the other 5000 New Readers will probably also leave and we will be right back where we started with 10,000 core Old Readers. But what if the 5000 that has been lost represents Old Readers that have abandoned the title because they didn't like the new direction? Then when Wood leaves so will 10,000 New Readers and all that will be left are 5000 Old Readers. Can the title title survive with only 5000 readers? It's hard to imagine.

So there is a real possiblity what Dark Horse has done with this new direction is create an initial spike in readership for the short term, but effectively killed it in the long term. I hope that isn't case, but it is certainly possible.

I mentioned this in another thread, but if you go back to the last part of Iron Shadows In the Moon two years ago, it was selling around 15K. Is that the basic level, somewhere between 10 & 15K? It may be. We'll really know more in the next couple of months.

[Ironhand]

Excellant and useful analysis, Theagenes. Thank you.

Edited by Ironhand, 28 August 2012 - 02:24 AM.

[theagenes]

So there are several trends here. First you had a slow decline in the regular monthly title of the span of the Road of Kings arc from around 15-16,000 to around 10-11,000. Clearly RoK was a bomb and drive away 1/3 of the regular readership. The secondary titles more or less followed whatever the main monthly series was doing at that time. For our purposes less call this group the Old Readers.

At the beginning of 2012 the Old Readers numbered 10K. Now with the new Brian Wood series it started at 20K; it should be safe to assume that half of that is Old Readers. The other 10k presumably is made up of people that weren't previously reading Conan---we'll call them the New Readers.Since it's debut CtB has lost 5000 buyers. Now the big question is, who made up this 5000 that left---Old Readers or New Readers? If it was New Readers that left then it's no big deal. Once Wood leaves the other 5000 New Readers will probably also leave and we will be right back where we started with 10,000 core Old Readers. But what if the 5000 that has been lost represents Old Readers that have abandoned the title because they didn't like the new direction? Then when Wood leaves so will 10,000 New Readers and all that will be left are 5000 Old Readers. Can the title title survive with only 5000 readers? It's hard to imagine.

So there is a real possiblity what Dark Horse has done with this new direction is create an initial spike in readership for the short term, but effectively killed it in the long term. I hope that isn't case, but it is certainly possible.

I mentioned this in another thread, but if you go back to the last part of Iron Shadows In the Moon two years ago, it was selling around 15K. Is that the basic level, somewhere between 10 & 15K? It may be. We'll really know more in the next couple of months.

Yeah for all of Iron Shadows it was pretty consistently steady at 15-16000. The drop off started after the first issue of Road of Kings. Now some of the 10,000 New Readers might actually be Old Readers that left during Road of Kings but decided to pick it back up again with the new team. My guess is that KG Thunder is right and that the recent drop off of 5000 is mix of both Old and New Readers. But even if it's half and half, that still means that after Wood leaves you could be left with a readership of only 7500. Now maybe if Truman and Giorello take the main series back over again it will level out around 10K or so.

It really pisses me off that they thought Road of Kings would be a good idea.. Two full trades of unneeded pastiche? Why? It really killed the momentum. They had a winning formula at the beginning when they made sure each story arc was built around an original yarn or at least an original fragment. Too much B and C-level pastiche is what has killed the momentum of this series.Now the chances of actually getting to see DH adaptations of all the REH stories is pretty slim.

[wulfhere]

So there are several trends here. First you had a slow decline in the regular monthly title of the span of the Road of Kings arc from around 15-16,000 to around 10-11,000. Clearly RoK was a bomb and drive away 1/3 of the regular readership. The secondary titles more or less followed whatever the main monthly series was doing at that time. For our purposes less call this group the Old Readers.

At the beginning of 2012 the Old Readers numbered 10K. Now with the new Brian Wood series it started at 20K; it should be safe to assume that half of that is Old Readers. The other 10k presumably is made up of people that weren't previously reading Conan---we'll call them the New Readers.Since it's debut CtB has lost 5000 buyers. Now the big question is, who made up this 5000 that left---Old Readers or New Readers? If it was New Readers that left then it's no big deal. Once Wood leaves the other 5000 New Readers will probably also leave and we will be right back where we started with 10,000 core Old Readers. But what if the 5000 that has been lost represents Old Readers that have abandoned the title because they didn't like the new direction? Then when Wood leaves so will 10,000 New Readers and all that will be left are 5000 Old Readers. Can the title title survive with only 5000 readers? It's hard to imagine.

So there is a real possiblity what Dark Horse has done with this new direction is create an initial spike in readership for the short term, but effectively killed it in the long term. I hope that isn't case, but it is certainly possible.

I mentioned this in another thread, but if you go back to the last part of Iron Shadows In the Moon two years ago, it was selling around 15K. Is that the basic level, somewhere between 10 & 15K? It may be. We'll really know more in the next couple of months.

Yeah for all of Iron Shadows it was pretty consistently steady at 15-16000. The drop off started after the first issue of Road of Kings. Now some of the 10,000 New Readers might actually be Old Readers that left during Road of Kings but decided to pick it back up again with the new team. My guess is that KG Thunder is right and that the recent drop off of 5000 is mix of both Old and New Readers. But even if it's half and half, that still means that after Wood leaves you could be left with a readership of only 7500. Now maybe if Truman and Giorello take the main series back over again it will level out around 10K or so.

It really pisses me off that they thought Road of Kings would be a good idea.. Two full trades of unneeded pastiche? Why? It really killed the momentum. They had a winning formula at the beginning when they made sure each story arc was built around an original yarn or at least an original fragment. Too much B and C-level pastiche is what has killed the momentum of this series.Now the chances of actually getting to see DH adaptations of all the REH stories is pretty slim.

Why did they think Road of Kings was a good idea? I suspect that more than a few were looking at Roy Thomas with too much nostalgia. The explanation of the art is beyond me, although given current trends I suspect that the idiot in charge just has really bad taste in art.

They had a good thing going for a while. Too bad their incompetence is going to kill it.

[RichardPace]

One factor that's missing is the figures for trade collection sales. I expect a larger spike in sales of trades of the Wood run as he'd trail the trade-waiters from his Vertigo work. The long-term health of the Conan franchise will come from a healthy, evergreen backlist of the collected material and Wood and his accomplices look set to do just that if his track record is anything to go on.

~R

[ZackDavisson]

What surprises me even more is the drop-off from Pheonix on the Sword, which was an amazing series.

I wonder how many were waiting for the trade on that series?

[johnnypt]

One factor that's missing is the figures for trade collection sales. I expect a larger spike in sales of trades of the Wood run as he'd trail the trade-waiters from his Vertigo work. The long-term health of the Conan franchise will come from a healthy, evergreen backlist of the collected material and Wood and his accomplices look set to do just that if his track record is anything to go on.

~R

With the first trade just announced, we'll soon be able to gauge that. I wonder how much digital sales are also part of this, both current and discounted after a few months. Maybe not a lot, but it'd be interesting to see.

[johnnypt]

It really pisses me off that they thought Road of Kings would be a good idea.. Two full trades of unneeded pastiche? Why? It really killed the momentum. They had a winning formula at the beginning when they made sure each story arc was built around an original yarn or at least an original fragment. Too much B and C-level pastiche is what has killed the momentum of this series.Now the chances of actually getting to see DH adaptations of all the REH stories is pretty slim.

Why did they think Road of Kings was a good idea? I suspect that more than a few were looking at Roy Thomas with too much nostalgia. The explanation of the art is beyond me, although given current trends I suspect that the idiot in charge just has really bad taste in art.

They had a good thing going for a while. Too bad their incompetence is going to kill it.

No question it was a mistake. The transition from ISOTM to QOTBC should've been three or four issues at most with the last of the "first" six issue arc the end of Chapter One (you know, the mating dance )

[ZackDavisson]

It really pisses me off that they thought Road of Kings would be a good idea.. Two full trades of unneeded pastiche? Why? It really killed the momentum. They had a winning formula at the beginning when they made sure each story arc was built around an original yarn or at least an original fragment. Too much B and C-level pastiche is what has killed the momentum of this series.Now the chances of actually getting to see DH adaptations of all the REH stories is pretty slim.

I totally agree. And ... I think off the record most people at Dark Horse would agree with you.

For me the art was the killer on ROK more than the story. But then I love Roy Thomas, and have lots of nostalgia for his style of Conan. But the art, the coloring ... it was all too much of a hard left turn from what DH had established.

I think it will be interesting to see how much effect the rotating art team has on the trades. I do a lot of reading from trades, and that really gets to me. I don't know if I am alone on that. There was one Conan trade ... can't remember off of the top of my head ... that I found almost unreadable due to the constant shift in artists. They were all good, but there were too many of them.

[johnnypt]

It really pisses me off that they thought Road of Kings would be a good idea.. Two full trades of unneeded pastiche? Why? It really killed the momentum. They had a winning formula at the beginning when they made sure each story arc was built around an original yarn or at least an original fragment. Too much B and C-level pastiche is what has killed the momentum of this series.Now the chances of actually getting to see DH adaptations of all the REH stories is pretty slim.

I totally agree. And ... I think off the record most people at Dark Horse would agree with you.

For me the art was the killer on ROK more than the story. But then I love Roy Thomas, and have lots of nostalgia for his style of Conan. But the art, the coloring ... it was all too much of a hard left turn from what DH had established.

I think it will be interesting to see how much effect the rotating art team has on the trades. I do a lot of reading from trades, and that really gets to me. I don't know if I am alone on that. There was one Conan trade ... can't remember off of the top of my head ... that I found almost unreadable due to the constant shift in artists. They were all good, but there were too many of them.

Maybe it was Volume 9 Free Companions, with Kubert, Truman and Giorello? At least they were along the same lines, Volume 14 is going to have three very different art styles.

[johnnypt]

What surprises me even more is the drop-off from Pheonix on the Sword, which was an amazing series.

I wonder how many were waiting for the trade on that series?

Speaking of, where is the trade on this?

[ZackDavisson]

Maybe it was Volume 9 Free Companions, with Kubert, Truman and Giorello? At least they were along the same lines, Volume 14 is going to have three very different art styles.

That was it. I found it almost unreadable, even though I love all three of those artists individually. The mix-n-match was just too much for me.

And the first trade for Queen of the Black Coast was announced recently. Not sure when it is coming out.

[terryallenuk]

The first Hardcover of QotBC has been announced for Jan.16 , issues 1-6

Terry

[Slashing Sword]

It really pisses me off that they thought Road of Kings would be a good idea.. Two full trades of unneeded pastiche? Why? It really killed the momentum. They had a winning formula at the beginning when they made sure each story arc was built around an original yarn or at least an original fragment. Too much B and C-level pastiche is what has killed the momentum of this series.Now the chances of actually getting to see DH adaptations of all the REH stories is pretty slim.

I totally agree. And ... I think off the record most people at Dark Horse would agree with you.

For me the art was the killer on ROK more than the story. But then I love Roy Thomas, and have lots of nostalgia for his style of Conan. But the art, the coloring ... it was all too much of a hard left turn from what DH had established.

I think it will be interesting to see how much effect the rotating art team has on the trades. I do a lot of reading from trades, and that really gets to me. I don't know if I am alone on that. There was one Conan trade ... can't remember off of the top of my head ... that I found almost unreadable due to the constant shift in artists. They were all good, but there were too many of them.

I thought too the stories were decent and the art was just terrible and destroyed the entire series.

[monk]

For me the art was the killer on ROK more than the story. But then I love Roy Thomas, and have lots of nostalgia for his style of Conan. But the art, the coloring ... it was all too much of a hard left turn from what DH had established.

it really was the killer, and I'm kind of surprised such a hard lesson learned would be repeated with this Elf/Sparkle Conan.

hawthorne basically came out and said fan ire at his style began depressing the sales.

If they want to do pastiche, it's definitely possible to create GREAT stories, with GREAT art, and that's what they need to concentrate on. Throwing out things like Island of Snake Head Men and other tripe won't cut it any more, and it sort of never did.