James Van Hise

Regarding the Conan The Warrior art from Sword & Fantasy #1. The person who provided it to me last year told me that it bought it from an estate where he also got other signed Krenkel originals, and the person who sold it to him claimed that this was by Krenkel as well, which, of course, doesn't prove anything.

And as for using a copyrighted image, it's not copyrighted. Lancer didn't copyright those Frazetta covers when they were published in the 1960s. In the 1970s Frazetta realized that when he started up his poster business and so he started copyrighting his old 1960s covers which hadn't been copyrighted. Some of the paintings he altered, which would make his new copyright valid. But some of them, like Conan The Warrior (which he just retitled The Warrior for copyright purposes) wasn't altered. Didn't anyone find it odd that those Conan paintings have a 1973 copyright on them in Frazetta's calendars when they were published in the 1960s?

This is also true of the early 1960s Burroughs covers before Ace made a deal with ERB Inc. and all subsequent covers (from 1964 on) bear an ERB Inc. copyright. In the early 1980s Russ Cochran published volume 3 of the ERB LIBRARY OF ILLUSTRATION which includes many Frazetta covers. The head of ERB Inc. told me at the time that the book was held up for 2 years because they insisted that all of the copyrights in it be accurate but Frazetta wanted his copyright on certain paintings. But since those paintings had never been copyrighted by Ace or anyone else (like Tarzan And The Lost Empire), they were thus in the public domain and couldn't carry anyone's copyright, not even ERB Inc. Frazetta finally gave in and if you look through the book, some of the Frazetta paintings (like Beyond The Farthest Star) have the ERB Inc. copyright but others have no copyright info on them at all. Those are the public domain paintings. -- James Van Hise

Well I heard from Arnie right away. For those of you who are reading this and don't know who he is, Arnie Fenner is the person who edited/wrote the 3 definitive books on Frazetta's life and career, ICON, LEGACY and TESTAMENT, becoming very good friends with the Frazettas in the process. He also publishes SPECTRUM which is a yearly review of the best in Science Fiction/ Fantasy Art. He created, published, and Art Directed projects too numerous to list. In short, he knows Art. He is an undisputed authority on Frazetta (probably #2 after Doc Dave) with impeccable credentials.

I am posting his comments on this thread with his permission.

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"My take on the copy of the WARRIOR you linked to is that it's a fake, and not by Roy. About as real as all those "Bill Waterson" Calvin & Hobbes or "Gary Larson" Far Side sketches people offer for sale (trust me, they're fake). Shoot, Roy had a hard enough time finishing his own paintings; there was simply no way he was going to spend all the time doing either a large "comp" (HA!) or such a crappy copy on canvas. Not only is this whole deal an insult to Frazetta, but it's an insult to Krenkel as well.

I just have a hard time believing this tracing is by Krenkel. He DID do some ink copies of some of Frazetta's drawings (because he liked it or because he wanted learn something by doing it), but I've NEVER heard of him copying one of his paintings. It just doesn't add up here--and, obviously, someone else colored the piece. There is no resemblance whatsoever to Krenkel's technique or palette.

There are a LOT of fake RGK pieces floating around--they're almost as common as Frazetta forgeries--and my guess is that this is one. But, even if it were legitimate, I think the editor made a huge mistake publishing it. Printing it is palgiarism, an infringement on Frazetta's copyright, and is simply wrong.

Roy advised Frank when he got the Conan job, but in the capacity of a reader familiar with the character and stories, not artistically. Frank was already a master in ink and watercolor by the time he met Roy; he had learned to use oil paints when he was a kid under Falanga's tutelage. Roy introduced him to many, many of the classic artists, far beyond comics; he expanded Frank's artistic horizons, so to speak. But Frank needed about as much help painting as Richard Bong needed shooting down Zeros. The roughs Roy did for several of the Warren covers were done because he needed $ and that was Frank's way of helping him out: comparing those sketches to Frazetta's finishes show exactly what Frank used (a situation or archetecture) and what he didn't (any of Roy's figures--they just didn't "move" like Frank's). As an REH fan, Roy would suggest scenes or situations, provided advice when it came to general descriptions, but that was it. He never did a rough, never applied a drop of paint to any of Frank's Conans.

Roy was talented and he definitely could draw and paint--which is why the piece on this fanzine cover doesn't ring true. It is too obviously a clunky tracing without exhibiting any of Roy's skill. And the color is NOTHING like RGK's color. This guy is simply misguided. Now if Williamson or Rich Garrison or Mike Kaluta (who had inked/finished several of Roy's drawings for DAW) or Barry Klugerman stepped forward and said, "yeah, Roy did that" I'd eat my words. But i don't think that's likely to happen.

Frank *DID* help Roy out on many of his early ERB covers for Ace, mostly because of Roy's insistence, partly because Fritz was wanting to get his feet wet in the paperback market and get back into oil painting. After Frank's paperback career took off, I don't think he worked on any of Krenkel's later covers. Roy's KING KULL painting for Lancer is widely considered his best and though some have said that they believe Frazetta pitched in on some of the figures, Fritz insists it's all RGK, that he had nothing to do with it. Roy used to describe how he would get to a certain point and then freeze; he wouldn't know how to proceed and he'd literally start begging Frank to step in and "fix it." Frazetta has said that one of the areas that would give Krenkel coniptions was painting a character's hair. Roy's problems were that 1] he constantly questioned his own abilities, 2] he felt inferior to Frank, 3] he had a lot of difficulty staying focused on a project and seeing it through from start to finish, and 4] he simply didn't like the idea of being an "illustrator" and definitely didn't like a client or art director telling him what should be in the picture.

I can't remember precisely when the rumor of Roy coming up with the idea for "Sea Witch" started--maybe in that issue of SQUA TRONT with the Krenkel roughs for unrealized Warren covers, but without digging it out I can't say for certain. But where ever, it started AFTER Roy had died--a little too convenient (and suspicious) if you ask me. The story may have started because someone ran across one of Roy's copies or variations or *something* similar to Frank's painting: could've been perfectly innocent speculation, could've been started with malicious intent. Either way, it's hardly "proof," especially without something in writing from Roy or some other sort of documentation to back it up. Without anything to support the contention (a Krenkel sketch, if that's the foundation, means nothing), Frank's refutation of the notion in ICON should be seen as the final word on the subject. Frank acknowledges without hesitation asking Roy to do roughs for some of the Warren covers: what possible reason would he have to deny that Roy had done a "Sea Witch" rough if he had actually drawn one? Obviously, there is none.


QUOTE: "They were GREAT friends at one time, but it is known that during the last decade of Roy's life they both had many disagreements and didn't quite see eye to eye. This comes to me direct from several known publishd historians/friends who knew both men very well. Now that you brought this up, I think it also quite odd that their friendship peaked at about the time of the Warrior(just about the time when Franks career starting taking off)."


*Sigh*

They never had a falling out. They were friends to the end. Even after the Frazettas moved to PA, they were still close. They certainly had disagreements, but what long-term friends don't? As Frank said after Roy died, outside of Ellie and the kids there was no person he loved more. Frank never received much validation from his father and Roy filled that void for him.

Roy and Ellie used to argue about religion all the time (Roy was an atheist)--good naturedly, but neither would budge. When Roy's cancer plunged him into the depths, the Frazettas provided a lot of support (and without going into detail, did some very generous things). Shortly before he died, Roy called and talked to Frank for a while, then asked to talk to Ellie. Roy was scared, he knew his time was short--and Ellie gave him the compassion, expression of faith, and assurance he needed. He died shortly after.

Sure doesn't sound like their friendship had suffered or wained a bit to me.

I'd be curious to know who these "historians/friends" are he mentions."

-Arnie Fenner-

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I hope you noticed that he repeated several things that I did (in this thread) which made me feel pretty darn terrific. I only quoted funnymaniacs posts, not my own.

I'm still waiting to hear from Doc Dave.


-Joe-

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