grim cimmerian

Thranduil rides a giant moose.

Actually that is a extinct giant deer known as an Irish Elk (Megaloceros giganteus.)


Whew! what a relief! I am glad none of my worries over this movie actually came true. I should have just trusted that with Jackson at the helm it would turn out fine.
I did have a few nitpicks over all but really enjoyed the movie.
Seems like Bilbo just wasn't very endearing or likable in this film, did anyone else get the same impression? It certainly didn't feel like the dwarfs would do anything to protect their smallest party member and his contributions to the quest seemed watered down a bit from what I remember reading.
Some parts were a little campy but nowhere near the disaster that I thought might happen after watching the trailer.
I wish that the stone "giants" would have been more along the lines of traditional giants of mythology or established folklore.
I liked the look of many of the dwarfs from other scenes better than some of the very un-dwarfish looking main characters. The dwarf with the goblin axe stuck in his head is the dumbest visual choice that Jackson has made in four movies so far. What the hell was that? Lame is the answer.
Overall I am very pleased. I want to see it a second time to ingrain it before I have to wait many months for the DVD.

A story translated from French with quotes from an interview with Christopher Tolkien (among others) on the Jackson films. He's not too happy.

http://www.worldcrun...9/#.UMk8GIM82a7

He's essentially never happy with anything relating to his father's works unless it's something that he himself has specifically authorized for release. The thing is, I don't know how much of this is simply that he's legitimately upset about the adaptions themselves, or he's simply unhappy that his father had to sell the rights to adapting the works for such a small amount of money and that the family is not more directly benefiting from the adaptions huge success. It's a tricky situation. But, after next year with the final 3rd of The Hobbit, it won't be something they need to worry about any time soon, since from then on all they can do is Remakes, or I suppose, wholey invented out of thin air pastiches... Maybe they should just get the rights to The Iron Tower...

It is all about the money. Tolkien sold the rights and cannot influence adaptations such as films and games. He is bitter that the untold billions in merchandise and revenue will line the pockets of someone else rather than the heirs of J.R.R. Tolkien. On the other hand, Peter Jackson single-handedly turned a well known and loved literary creation into a monstrous cultural zeitgeist that it is today with his movies causing the books to sell at exponential rates and allowing both parties to profit heartily so who does actually deserve the money?

I have no wish to see the midnight premiere and risk getting shot by copycat mass shooters like Denver Batman senseless tragedy and a more recent failed attempt at the Twilight flick. I will see it on Sunday after the hoopla has died down some. I really am wringing my hands in nervous anticipation of this one. I hate the look of the dwarfs (very un-dwarvish) and it seems that there is going to be a strong comic element to these films from the preview trailer. (closes eyes and shudders.) I hated almost all of the supposed funny moments from the LOTR movies and I really hated some of the one liners, but I loved those films dearly and am crossing my fingers beyond hope that this turns out just as epic. Why try for slapstick in an epic fantasy adventure drama? I thought the world learned their lesson with Jar Jar Binks and his utter failure in mostly serious Sci Fi adventure.

Good spoilers of many major characters in all three upcoming movies can be seen in the Hobbit toy line
http://www.toywiz.com/hobbit.html
or the Hobbit miniatures by Games workshop.
http://www.google.co...j&q=hobbit toys
I find that I do not like the Goblins very much either as they do not seem much like established goblin lore or the previous movies for that matter. I seriously doubt that they will surpass the epitome of all cinema dragons that was Verminthrax in the 1981 Dragonslayer movie (never to be equaled let alone beaten in my opinion,) but I have very high hopes that Smaug will be badass and not just some lame CGI crap as most movies fail miserably with dragon portrayal. I liked the Hobbit Cartoon when I was young and the dragon must be at least that good.

Very minor spoilers for clueless noobs who have never read Tolkien
The hobbit at 310 pages is hardly enough material for 3 movies considering they did the thousands of pages of LOTR in just 3 movies. Even by giving us the back story of Dol Guldur and Gandalf's task from the appendices I fail to see where they are getting 3 films worth from.

I think it is likely they will break them into the following chunks: Hobbit and dwarfs meet fight trolls and go under the mountain face the goblins and find the ring 1st movie, meet beorn, journey through mirkwood get captured by elves and Gandalf faces the Sorcerer of Dul Guldur 2nd movie, journey to the mountain and face smaug the dragon, battle of 5 armies 3rd movie.

It is also possible that when gandalf reveals the map and key we will see flashbacks to thorin's dad inprisoned in Dol Guldur and how Gandalf gets the map.

I wonder if this poll is going to shift drastically when the new Arnold Conan flick comes out? Or if it will just entrench the loud minority deeper? should be interesting...

It doesn't matter where it goes as long as it keeps going! ha ha  
I mean, after all, when Mark said that Rusty said that Novalyne said that Howard said.... well, I guess that pretty much wrapped it up anyway...!  

I say CO-nan, but where im from people (not me) say far instead of fire and well you see.

Regarding "Co-nan or Con-an": I met Novalyne Price Ellis when she was the Guest of Honor at the Robert E. Howard Banquet at NolaCon in 1988. Believe me when I say she was a wonderful, spry, very sharp lady, very concerned about her good friend Bob Howard's legacy and memory. This was soon after ONE WHO WALKED ALONE was published, and she spent the better part of the next morning autographing scores of copies for all of us Howard geeks. She also graciously answered all of our questions directly and honestly. Someone (it might have been me) brought up the pronunciation of Conan's name, and this is what I remember her saying:(Something to the effect of) Bob mentioned to me 'What's all this about pronouncing Conan as "kho-NAN"? It's "KHO-nun".'
The second syllable is slurred into the "nun" sound, much like Edgar Rice Burroughs said Tarzan's name: "TAR-zun".
There was no "CONN-nan" pronunciation mentioned, although I have heard some people pronounce it that way.
But KHO-nun is how Novalyne said REH pronounced it.

It's Co-nun.  It doesn't matter how ANY actor in ANY crappy Co-naaaan "adaptation" says it.  HOWARD said it that way.  EVERYBODY HE KNEW said it that way (believe me, I've asked plenty of people born in the 'teens, 20s, and 30's how they pronounced the "Conan" in Arthur Conan Doyle- all "Co-nun").  Finally, as our Irish and Scots brethren (modern Cimmerians) have pointed out, that's how the people who CREATED the name speak it.  No respect, whatsoever, should be given pronunciation styles of Italian cheese peddlers(Dino) or Austrian scholars of iron-pumping (Ah-Nold).

I agree. If the Gaels pronounce it one way, and REH (for some eerie reason) said it the same way, and, then that should be settled.

I disagree that it should be settled, I will play devil's advocate here:

What if Robert E. Howard pronounced "wash" as "warsh" instead,as many in Texas do, would we then assume that this is the correct pronunciation of "wash" even though the word predates Howard by centuries just because he may have used it in his stories? Of course not. We would recognize that he uses the local pronunciation or Southern regional dialect or "accent." by that logic Howard's pronunciation is no more valid than anyone else's as far as a word that he did not invent is concerned, so it doesn't matter how Bob or Novalyne or anyone else pronounced it, he created the character, not the name. BTW, the consensus by Howard scholars is that he said it as COnun.

So what are the etymological origins of the name Conan? Obviously it is Gaelic and has been a traditional name in Northern Europe for centuries, so how do they pronounce the word? Co-None right? Well hold on there, The majority of the world recognizes the Irish or Scottish or Welsh people as having very strong accents when speaking English or any other language for that matter, so how do we know if that is definitive pronunciation or just a strong regional accent put on it like when they say "Oirish" when the rest of the World says EYErish? Should we then change the spelling of the word Irish to Oirish just because that is how they themselves say it phonetically? We recognize that people with Gaelic backgrounds often have universally accepted strong accents when pronouncing common words, such as the phrase "What did you say?"  
Different British Isles regional dialects examples
Ali G: Wot did yous say? Is it coz I is black?
Irish: Waaat ye saiy?
Scouse: Wa' did yous say?
Yorkshire Chicken Run: Wha' did theur seh?
Brummie: What did yaouw soy?
Geordie: Wot did yee sa?
Scottish: Whit did ye saay?
Posh: I'm terribly sorry but what did you, one's old bean, seay?
So by this logic, if it is recognized that the speaker has a recognizably strong accent on common words that the listener understands to be an accent and will not adopt in their own pronunciation, then the Regional accent cannot be adopted as the correct pronunciation precisely because it is known as a regional dialect just like a Southern drawl, Western Twang or Brooklyn slang is a recognized accent of American pronunciation and not the definitive version. Maybe the "Conun" pronunciation (said quickly and run together with no syllable emphasis) of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's name is simply because he has an Scottish accent and we shouldn't adopt his pronunciation.
So how about pronunciation and Dialect coaches that professionally train actors to speak in a regional dialect or accent? How would they pronounce Conan? It would vary by region.

What about the actual spelling and the English language rules for the letters themselves? Conan= koh-nuh n is how it is presented in Oxford British English Language dictionaries, Conan is Coe-Nan (emphasis on both syllables) in Merriam Webster American English dictionaries. Okay lets look deeper etymologically and go to the Latin origins of the letters themselves first used in the 7th century for English and pronounce them the way that Anglo-Saxons who originated the English language did.  CONAN would be pronuounced in Latin as Kic ou en aa en or Ka-ooen-nan or Caown an.

Then there is the argument from consensus, that the majority of speakers pronounce it Coe NAn so the majority rules and that is how it should be said. As evidence I give you the Conan Movies and people like Conan O'Brian who regardless of how he actually wishes it to be pronounced is usually referred to as Coe NAn.

I postulate another argument, the singing/shouting argument for pronunciation:
Conun cannot be shouted very effectively, it usually morphs into CO NAAAN. No one shouts COOO NUN! because the second syllable is seen as brief it doesn't lend well to a loud and long shout because of the way the human tongue and vocal chords work. Try it if you like at full volume. Sorta like British singers with strong accents suddenly sound more American when loud singing versus normal speaking.

The correct pronunciation arguments for Conan can be either invalidated or proved definitive based on your point of view according to author's personal bias, local accent, regional accent, world dialect, origin of the word, phonetics, Latin lettering, syllable emphasis, majority rules, or singing/shouting pronunciation
Is anyone still reading? Does any of this really matter one whit?
No, not really! pronounce Conan however the heck you want.

The REAL problem is when people say "woof" instead of "woewlf" for Wolf, or "crick" instead of "creeek" for Creek,  "warsh" instead of wash, wot instead of what, Tammmaatoows instead of Toe Mate Oohs for tomatoes, Carmal instead of Care-a-mel for caramel, "Eye-tayl-yin" instead of "eeTALian" for Italian, there is no such country as EYEtaly dammit! It is Italy!

For the record I pronounce it as KOH-naan, with all emphasis on the first syllable and a letter "A" sound in the second. I pronounce Cimmeria and Cimmerian with an "S" sound even though the "C" would probably be pronounced "K" as in Celtic (try and tell that to the Boston Celtics fans though)